4e Hypertext d20 SRD

[Boredflak]

UPDATE: There will be no 4th edition version of The Hypertext d20 SRD.

The Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License makes it impossible.


ORIGINAL POST
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At this time I have no plans to create a 4th edition version of The Hypertext d20 SRD. That may change, but it really depends on several things:

1. How the 4e rules are licensed for use by fan sites — right now, I don't know if a 4e version of the site will be permitted.

2. The D&D Insider Compendium — if the folks at WotC do a good job, I won't need to!

3. Time — when I created The Hypertext d20 SRD I was starting a new company and expecting my first born. Work and family both put much more of a demand on my time now than they did then.

Whatever the case, I plan on maintaining the 3.5e version of The Hypertext d20 SRD as long as gamers find it useful. Don't worry. It's not going anywhere.

[Hunter Rose]

From the terms of the GSL (published today), I don't see how you could create a 4e version of this site. They've sewn it up pretty tight.

This sucks because I really wanted to see a 4e hypertext too. I don't have faith in Wizards to create such a simple and easily navigated reference. Even if they could pull it off, I have no use for their other tools so a monthly fee is a bit much pay for it.

[Boredflak]

I don't see how you could create a 4e version of this site.

Agreed. Looks like the only 4e D&D rules reference will be from WotC.

[Ustice]

I started reading the SRD, and it is a lot user less friendly. While I heard from Wizards of the Coast today stating that they will have a fan-site policy soon that may be separate from the GSL, I suspect that they aren't going to want the info published in any other place but their books and products since they are basically giving people the right to refer to info in their books, most of which would be covered by fair use (as long as you site the reference). I have not researched what exact terms are trademarked, so I can't say for sure what could be referenced without the SRD, and nor am I a lawyer to say how much could be referenced without it in any case.

The SRD is designed for 3rd party publishers to "make products that work with D&D 4th Edition to enhance the gaming experiences of [the] players. " That is to say that the target audience for this is publishers of books, and not fan-sites. WotC is will be releasing a fan-site policy "in the near future."

Once information is released, it creates demand. Linksys did this when they released the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G"]WRT54G[/url] wireless router which accidentally used code licensed under the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License"]General Public License[/url] which required them to release the source code of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware"]firmware[/url] allowing others to create 3rd-party replacement firmware. At first, Linksys cut this off by changing the device so that it no longer used the same firmware, and was no longer subject to the requirements of the GPL, but after there was such a demand they issued the WRT54GL which was basically a reissue of the initial product as well. It is now a successful product. So what once was seen as a problem is now looked at as an asset once they realized the demand.

It is still possible that WotC will issue a separate document with more info available for fan-sites separately from the SRD the way that Linksys started supporting the open firmware once again; based on the information that was released however, I do not have high hopes that they will support sites like d20srd.com. It's now wait and see.

[oestii]

I have a wide range of complaints with the Gaming System License—and 4e in general—but I believe that inane things like the following are a perfect example of the ridiculousness:

Q: Can I use page numbers?
A: No. Future versions of the books may be repaginated, so material won't reliably appear on the same page in various printings of the books.

This is from the GSL's FAQ.

Later,
Randy

[nos402]

What a bummer but I understand! I am really looking forward to 4E but I am NOT looking forward to doing it without the downloaded Firefox bookmarked database! I'm actually considering trying to use OCR software on the PDFs and trying to construct my own database replica (for my own personal use obviously).

[ra-punzel72]

2. The D&D Insider Compendium — if the folks at WotC do a good job, I won't need to!

The compendium is a joke. ONE search field. No menus. That's it.

I am a big fan of D&D 4 but what Wizards did with the Game License could break it's neck.

Thx for YOUR great work with your database, accessible for years without fee. That's real spirit.

Jo

[Boredflak]

The compendium is a joke.

One friend's two-word critique was "shockingly bad". I have to agree at this point. Ken Troop points out that this is just the first glimpse of the compendium. They plan to add the ability to browse the content and some filters. I hope they also get rid of the popup window interface and add some hyperlinks! We'll see...

[balgarion13]

Thx for YOUR great work with your database, accessible for years without fee. That's real spirit.

I just wanted to tell you how much the Terre Haute North Vigo HS RPG club has benefitted from your site. With 90% of us bookless, D20srd REALLY helped out. Thanks form all 70 of us (and me).

[Hogarth]

Probably only a small minority of you will be interested, but Paizo Publishing is coming out with their own OGL version of D&D based on the 3.5 d20 SRD. The finished product will be ready in 2009, but you can read the current "Alpha" version here -- http://alpha3.wikidot.com/home -- or download a much, much prettier PDF version from Paizo.com absolutely free.

The Beta version will be out in August (again, for free), and they'll be taking suggestions from playtesters for a year before coming up with a finished product.

[Wih]

Probably only a small minority of you will be interested, but Paizo Publishing is coming out with their own OGL version of D&D based on the 3.5 d20 SRD. The finished product will be ready in 2009, but you can read the current "Alpha" version here -- http://alpha3.wikidot.com/home -- or download a much, much prettier PDF version from Paizo.com absolutely free.

The Beta version will be out in August (again, for free), and they'll be taking suggestions from playtesters for a year before coming up with a finished product.

My group is currently using bits and pieces from the Pathfinder rules set. Some of it's very good, though I find the inital premise a little but dubious (it's suppose to be a balance based thing, and they ave the Wizard and Cleric a boost in power?). It's got my stamp of approval overall though, though some things need to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Big Mac]

UPDATE: There will be no 4th edition version of The Hypertext d20 SRD.

The Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License makes it impossible.

Forgetting the GSL for a moment - the SRD itself makes a 4th edition version of The Hypertext d20 SRD impossible. The new SRD is literally a series of totally meaningless lists. Adding hyperlinks to those meaningless words wouldn't help people find any meaning from them.

ORIGINAL POST
------------------

At this time I have no plans to create a 4th edition version of The Hypertext d20 SRD. That may change, but it really depends on several things:

1. How the 4e rules are licensed for use by fan sites — right now, I don't know if a 4e version of the site will be permitted.

2. The D&D Insider Compendium — if the folks at WotC do a good job, I won't need to!

3. Time — when I created The Hypertext d20 SRD I was starting a new company and expecting my first born. Work and family both put much more of a demand on my time now than they did then.

Whatever the case, I plan on maintaining the 3.5e version of The Hypertext d20 SRD as long as gamers find it useful. Don't worry. It's not going anywhere.

1) I don't know how the fan site licence is going to be yet. It is just possible that it will allow a full hyperlinked version of the SRD on a non-commercial website. But as I said above, the new SRD is useless.

2) D&D Insider Compendium is useless. The only way you can get anything out of it is to download it all (by hacking the URLs) and then create a search engine on your own PC. I'm not planning to go with 4th edition, but if I was I'd download it all double-quick, make a HTML version on my own PC and add in my own hyperlinks. But knowing that such a thing could not be shared would not encourage me to rush the thing.

3) I don't have time to read the new D&D books. I hate playing D&D when I don't know the rules. I'm not perfect with 3rd edition, but I know it a lot better than I do 2nd edition AD&D. And this website helps me to generate PCs a lot faster then if I need to flip books. I still use books (especially books like FRCS and DLCS) and I still use the PHB at games, but this website is my preferred character creation tool.

It seems to me that WotC are scarred that websites like this (and the other SRD websites) are eating into their sales. They don't seem to realise that they helped pursuade me to go with 3rd edition. Oh well. If Gleemax can die, maybe the GSL can also die. I'd rather see you finish adding in hyperlinks to this website and dealing with typos. I intend to play 3rd edition for a long time to come.

BTW: If you ever do suddenly get a bunch of free time, perhaps you might like to copy over the monster conversions done by the Creature Catalogue team (at ENWorld) and hyperlink them all into the SRD.

Probably only a small minority of you will be interested, but Paizo Publishing is coming out with their own OGL version of D&D based on the 3.5 d20 SRD. The finished product will be ready in 2009, but you can read the current "Alpha" version here -- http://alpha3.wikidot.com/home -- or download a much, much prettier PDF version from Paizo.com absolutely free.

The Beta version will be out in August (again, for free), and they'll be taking suggestions from playtesters for a year before coming up with a finished product.

That wiki is good, but not as good as this website. There just isn't enough links. Not yet. I'd love to see someone add the Pathfinder Alpha rules to the SRD to create a "Hypertext Pathfinder SRD". But with the various versions of Pathfinder I think that sort of website would probably need to wait for the final version of the rules.

[Hogarth]

Probably only a small minority of you will be interested, but Paizo Publishing is coming out with their own OGL version of D&D based on the 3.5 d20 SRD. The finished product will be ready in 2009, but you can read the current "Alpha" version here -- http://alpha3.wikidot.com/home -- or download a much, much prettier PDF version from Paizo.com absolutely free.

The Beta version will be out in August (again, for free), and they'll be taking suggestions from playtesters for a year before coming up with a finished product.

That wiki is good, but not as good as this website. There just isn't enough links. Not yet. I'd love to see someone add the Pathfinder Alpha rules to the SRD to create a "Hypertext Pathfinder SRD". But with the various versions of Pathfinder I think that sort of website would probably need to wait for the final version of the rules.

I never claimed that it would be any good, just that it existed.

Actually, the Beta version of the rules is out now.

[RiTz21]

Jans,

Do you have any plans to create a Pathfinder SRD website, as you did with v3.5?
That would be really awesome... And I'd be glad to contribute to it!

I already noticed many bugs in Pathfinder beta while I am adding support for it in my D&D product.

Richard "RiTz21" Taillon

[Hogarth]

Jans,

Do you have any plans to create a Pathfinder SRD website, as you did with v3.5?
That would be really awesome... And I'd be glad to contribute to it!

I already noticed many bugs in Pathfinder beta while I am adding support for it in my D&D product.

Richard "RiTz21" Taillon

At least one employee there has suggested they might put out their own rules web site when the rules are finalised (which seems like a smart idea in my book).

[ra-punzel72]

It would be very nice if you could stay on topic, which is D&D 4.0.

There is plenty of room for Pathfinder in this forum in other threads but I would like to be informed or discuss about 4E and a possible integration in this site in this thread, as it was intended. By the way, the new GSL MIGHT allow this site to be a gread SRD for 4.0 too!

Thanx

[dmofdoom]

I have enough 3/3.5 ED material to last till doomsday, I possess absolutely zero interest 4ED, but i might pick it up ten years from now off clearance outlets. Maybe. My two cents anyway, I don't mean to flame but i got plenty o hate brimmin (f'n ha$br0)over on the topic, lol.

Much peace all! (flames can go to dmdoom at dmdoom.net)

[dmofdoom]

sorry i guess i already complained on this topic in another thread before..... i t gets hard for me to keep track. so here's an official "my bad" cherish it!

[Big Mac]

It would be very nice if you could stay on topic, which is D&D 4.0.

There is plenty of room for Pathfinder in this forum in other threads but I would like to be informed or discuss about 4E and a possible integration in this site in this thread, as it was intended. By the way, the new GSL MIGHT allow this site to be a gread SRD for 4.0 too!

Sorry for going off topic.

The bad news is that Wizards of the Coast are not going to release a 4th edition SRD.

So without a new SRD a 4th edition version of this website is not possible.

I can not imagine WotC changing their mind on this issue, so don't think there will be any more discussion.

[rednikon]

All the more reason for me to stay with 3.5